{"id":10035,"date":"2026-01-15T08:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-01-15T08:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.raziemah.com\/blog\/?p=10035"},"modified":"2025-10-10T18:02:24","modified_gmt":"2025-10-10T18:02:24","slug":"looking-at-ekaterina-velmezova-and-kalevi-kulls-article-2017-boris-uspenskij-part-15-of-19","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.raziemah.com\/blog\/?p=10035","title":{"rendered":"Looking at Ekaterina Velmezova and Kalevi Kull’s Article (2017) “Boris Uspenskij…” (Part 15 of 19)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

0594 On page 438, the question of translation takes a creepy turn.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What happens when the presence1b<\/sub> of the language2am<\/sub> of meaning1a<\/sub><\/em> produces a social interaction2bf<\/sub><\/em> that is obviously not substantiated by a cognition2am<\/sub><\/em> that makes sense?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

0595 Say what?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Uspenskij proposes the following scenario.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When I say something<\/em> to you, I can take into account that you may not understand me.  You may not translate what I am saying2af<\/sub><\/em> according to the same… positivist intellect3a<\/sub> or meaning1a<\/sub><\/em>.  As soon as I know that this is the case, I become silent, as Wittgenstein advised (after he had published a vast treatise<\/em> that could not be translated into any establishment framework<\/em>).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

0596 Does this sound familiar?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is not a scenario about translation between two people speaking different mother tongues<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is a scenario about translation between two people engaging different languages2am<\/sub> of meaning1a<\/sub><\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

0597 For example, I ask about a “tool2af<\/sub>“.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This raises the semasiological question of the meaning1a<\/sub><\/em>… er… language2am<\/sub> that gives the term meaning1b<\/sub><\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What meanings<\/em> can one attach to the word, “tool2af<\/sub>“?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A handyman<\/em> may translate that into a question about what instruments are needed to perform the task at hand2am<\/sub><\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A surveillance agent<\/em> may translate that into a question about what type of weapons are you talking about?2am<\/sub>.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I suspect that the handyman that the agency sent<\/em> is here to conduct surveillance<\/em> because he does not appear interested in getting any work done2bm<\/sub>.  Instead, he seems interested in figuring out where my weapons may be hiding<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

0598 I immediately stop asking questions and fall silent, following Wittgenstein’s advice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Why?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I do not want to send the wrong message1c<\/sub><\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

0599 Uspenskij offers this scenario twenty-three years after the fall of the Berlin Wall<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Is he traumatized or what?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The interviewer is unfazed<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

0600 On page 439, the next question (#8) concerns how Uspenskij feels about Saussure and Peirce.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Uspenskij says that, as a linguist, he subjectively appreciates Saussure and objectively understands what he says.  As for Peirce, he is incomprehensible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The interviewer states that one of the advantages of Peirce’s sign-relations is that they allow one to differentiate among plants, animals and humans, just like Thomas Aquinas does, following Aristotle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Uspenskij replies (more or less), “That is bullshit.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

0601 The old man is correct.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How so?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Take a look at the ego interscope<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Does the history and the semiotics of the first iteration of the Tartu-Moscow School of Semiotics<\/em> translate into this interscope?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

0602 If so, then there is more to Peirce’s categories and semiotics than icons, indexes and symbols.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, maybe, Peirce’s tradition<\/em> will fare better in the second iteration of the TMS<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

0603 Meanwhile, take a look at the above figure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

If Lotman is correct, then it is inevitable that there is something untranslatable<\/em> in the translation2a<\/sub> that occurs in the content-level actuality2a<\/sub> of the ego interscope.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

If entanglement is translation, then I wonder what the semiological3a<\/sub> structuralist3b<\/sub> model2c<\/sub> (SVi<\/sub>) stands for<\/em>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

0594 On page 438, the question of translation takes a creepy turn. What happens when the presence1b of the language2am of meaning1a produces a social interaction2bf that is obviously not substantiated by a cognition2am that makes sense? 0595 Say what? Uspenskij proposes the following scenario. When I say something to you, I can take into account that you may not understand me.  You may not translate what […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[418],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-10035","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-article-review"],"yoast_head":"\nLooking at Ekaterina Velmezova and Kalevi Kull's Article (2017) "Boris Uspenskij..." 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